UBC785XLT

The place to chat about using the BaseStation / SBS systems, ask questions, and to post any tips, tricks or stories about how you've used it. We'd also like to hear any suggestions you have for new functionality which we can add to the system.

Moderators: admin, KineticChris, KineticDavid, Moderators

User avatar
Allocator
Posts: 930
Joined: July 12th, 2006, 1:50 pm
Location: Shrewsbury
Contact:

Post by Allocator » April 14th, 2008, 2:22 pm

You really are not missing much. I purchased the "radio interface" but ended up not using it.

It's far better to have your radio set to scan the frequencies in your area and to watch the BaseStation display while you do. All the radio interface in BaseStation does is to tune to one frequency at a time. It's OK for airfield frequencies, but pretty useless for airways frequencies.

Only my opinion you understand.
SBS-1
RadarBox
PlanePlotter
ShipPlotter

www.assaultglidertrust.co.uk
www.rafars.org

User avatar
Caravelle
Posts: 223
Joined: October 28th, 2006, 5:41 pm
Location: Gatwick
Contact:

Post by Caravelle » April 14th, 2008, 3:08 pm

Only my opinion you understand.
If that suits you, fine. I prefer one frequency - so long as I know what it is for the particular airway I'm interested in at the time. I've lost too many brain cells to be able to do all the things I do <and> make sense of fragmented interchanges from 8 directions at once!

A question if I may: many non-ADS-B aircraft pass to the East of Gatwick, heading North-ish at a medium level - to Luton/Stansted I guess. Do you know what frequency they would be on whilst passing across Sussex/Kent/Greater London? When there are half a dozen bizjets in the aircraft list around 12-18,000 feet it's hard to tell which one you've seen.

Thanks

Caravelle



Caravelle
There is no end to this man's genius. Alas, nor is there a beginning.

User avatar
Allocator
Posts: 930
Joined: July 12th, 2006, 1:50 pm
Location: Shrewsbury
Contact:

Post by Allocator » April 14th, 2008, 5:47 pm

Caravelle wrote:
Only my opinion you understand.
If that suits you, fine. I prefer one frequency - so long as I know what it is for the particular airway I'm interested in at the time. I've lost too many brain cells to be able to do all the things I do <and> make sense of fragmented interchanges from 8 directions at once!
Ha, yes - well I am an air traffiker you see and over a period of time you develop what is called "cocktail party ear". This allows you to be deeply engrossed in one conversation at a noisy party with the person directly opposite you, and to pick up a comment from across the room and listen to that conversation at the same time. If you are close enough to the other person, then you can join that conversation too - it drives my wife mad as I never hear what she tells me - but then that is another air traffic skill, the ability to filter out "noise". (Boy, am I in so much trouble if she ever visits this forum!)

Seriously though, I like to have an overview of what is happening within 150 miles or so of where I am. It's much easier to follow an aircraft as it changes from one frequency to another if you are listening to them all - the problem with airways frequencies is that although they are allocated to a geographical area, they are not used just in that area. Listen late at night when there is hardly any traffic and compare this with the "rush" in the morning or evening.

The BaseStation radio add-on works very well for airfields, as you just right click on the airfield and get a frequency drop down list. Click a frequency and it tunes your radio. You can't do this with the airways frequencies, due to the variable geographical allocation. You can have these frequencies in a drop down list from the menu, but you are just guessing which one is in use.
SBS-1
RadarBox
PlanePlotter
ShipPlotter

www.assaultglidertrust.co.uk
www.rafars.org

User avatar
Caravelle
Posts: 223
Joined: October 28th, 2006, 5:41 pm
Location: Gatwick
Contact:

Post by Caravelle » April 14th, 2008, 6:09 pm

Yes, well the cocktail party effect doesn't work when you have tinnitis. Parties are just hell, you can't make anything out.

My thought was to listen around for a bit by scanning and find out which frequency is in use at the time - I know they change etc etc, they've been doing that since before I got my first airband radio in 1966, and it interfered with A-level revision, though I accept it's a lot worse now. Pot luck in fact.

So you don't know the frequency (or possible variations) I asked for then. Any idea where I can find out online please? I have yet to find a site listing frequencies with maps showing what they cover.

Thanks

Caravelle
There is no end to this man's genius. Alas, nor is there a beginning.

User avatar
Anmer
Posts: 6663
Joined: November 22nd, 2007, 8:35 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Post by Anmer » April 14th, 2008, 6:18 pm

Caravelle

Go to www.ais.org. Register for free and then hunt the publications - frequencies and charts.

I took an image of a chart and then added the frequencies and have it on my desktop to view when I need it.
Anmer
Radarspotting.com
Radarspotting since 2005

User avatar
Caravelle
Posts: 223
Joined: October 28th, 2006, 5:41 pm
Location: Gatwick
Contact:

Post by Caravelle » April 14th, 2008, 6:40 pm

Go to www.ais.org.
http://www.ais.org.uk/ actually. The one you gave goes to some computing club!

Thanks. I'm already registered and have some airfield plans. Didn't know they had maps showing frequencies as well.

Caravelle
There is no end to this man's genius. Alas, nor is there a beginning.

User avatar
Anmer
Posts: 6663
Joined: November 22nd, 2007, 8:35 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Post by Anmer » April 14th, 2008, 7:39 pm

Sorry about the url.

They don't have charts with frequencies. What I did was capture part of the chart from the PDF as an image file and then added the frequencies to the image. You'll find the frequencies buried in the documentation. Find the ones for your routes.
Anmer
Radarspotting.com
Radarspotting since 2005

User avatar
Caravelle
Posts: 223
Joined: October 28th, 2006, 5:41 pm
Location: Gatwick
Contact:

Post by Caravelle » April 14th, 2008, 7:43 pm

OK, I misunderstood.

(1) Get maps (done).

(2) Get frequencies.

(3) Add frequencies to maps.

I fell at hurdle #2. Can I have a clue which of the documents contains the frequencies, please? I've been going round in circles for an hour.

Caravelle
There is no end to this man's genius. Alas, nor is there a beginning.

User avatar
Caravelle
Posts: 223
Joined: October 28th, 2006, 5:41 pm
Location: Gatwick
Contact:

Post by Caravelle » April 14th, 2008, 7:56 pm

Damn. Posted my reply before seeing yours. Thanks for info, but not sure what you mean by "routes". Until I have the frequency I can't listen to the radio in the hopes of finding out what the route is, and until I have the route I can't find out what the frequency is - is that right? :)

I guess I can plot ADS-B aircraft against points on the SBS screen (which I don't have showing as I don't like clutter).

You know, it would be much easier if we had an enthusiast's website that had lists of frequencies needed to hear overflights at various locations - like airports. If I can ever get them together, I'll do this for my Gatwick AvPhotos site and our mailing list.

Caravelle
There is no end to this man's genius. Alas, nor is there a beginning.

DaveReid
Posts: 5911
Joined: July 2nd, 2005, 8:25 am
Location: Reading, Berks
Contact:

Post by DaveReid » April 14th, 2008, 7:57 pm

Caravelle wrote:OK, I misunderstood.

(1) Get maps (done).

(2) Get frequencies.

(3) Add frequencies to maps.

I fell at hurdle #2. Can I have a clue which of the documents contains the frequencies, please? I've been going round in circles for an hour.
UKAIP -> En-Route Data -> ENR Index, then ENR 3.1 (Lower routes) or ENR 3.2 (Upper routes)
Dave Reid
Reading, Berks
www.civilaircraftregisters.org/Mode_S_Resources

User avatar
Allocator
Posts: 930
Joined: July 12th, 2006, 1:50 pm
Location: Shrewsbury
Contact:

Post by Allocator » April 14th, 2008, 8:06 pm

Caravelle wrote:OK, I misunderstood.

(1) Get maps (done).

(2) Get frequencies.

(3) Add frequencies to maps.

I fell at hurdle #2. Can I have a clue which of the documents contains the frequencies, please? I've been going round in circles for an hour.

Caravelle
You could try these - they come from the excellent ATC simulation called London Control which is worth purchasing for the Sector Information Manual alone. I haven't updated my copy for a while, so no idea if these are still current. They are all London TC frequencies.

http://www.londoncontrol.com/

Biggin 120.525
Bovindon 119.775
Compton 135.8
Cowley 133.075
Dagga 124.925
Lambourne 118.825
Logan 135.425
Lorel 129.275
Ockham 134.125

You just have to listen, then write down any frequencies that are passed to aircraft and listen to see if you can hear them.
SBS-1
RadarBox
PlanePlotter
ShipPlotter

www.assaultglidertrust.co.uk
www.rafars.org

User avatar
Caravelle
Posts: 223
Joined: October 28th, 2006, 5:41 pm
Location: Gatwick
Contact:

Post by Caravelle » April 14th, 2008, 8:28 pm

Thanks to Dave and Allocator, I'll get the docs and try the frequencies.

Sorry to sound pessimistic (grumpy old man syndrome?) but the odds are that in the end I won't get anywhere. Time and time again I tune to a frequency and there is absolutely nothing there - even though people e-mail me to say "on 12*.*** now!". But please don't get me thinking about antennae any more, my SBS saga has me exhausted and disheartened.

Caravelle
There is no end to this man's genius. Alas, nor is there a beginning.

User avatar
Allocator
Posts: 930
Joined: July 12th, 2006, 1:50 pm
Location: Shrewsbury
Contact:

Post by Allocator » April 14th, 2008, 8:40 pm

Caravelle wrote:Thanks to Dave and Allocator, I'll get the docs and try the frequencies.

Sorry to sound pessimistic (grumpy old man syndrome?) but the odds are that in the end I won't get anywhere. Time and time again I tune to a frequency and there is absolutely nothing there - even though people e-mail me to say "on 12*.*** now!". But please don't get me thinking about antennae any more, my SBS saga has me exhausted and disheartened.

Caravelle
That's why I scan a number of frequencies. You only need one aircraft on one frequency, hear another frequency passed to an aircraft or acknowledged by the aircraft, add that to your scan list etc.

Then when you know that you have frequencies with aircraft on them, listen to them one at a time and then choose the frequencies that are best for you - I find that this is all part of the fun. Even with my cheapest handheld scanner with a rubber duck antenna, I can hear loads of stuff.
SBS-1
RadarBox
PlanePlotter
ShipPlotter

www.assaultglidertrust.co.uk
www.rafars.org

abmwod
Posts: 6
Joined: February 4th, 2008, 8:32 pm

UBC785XLT

Post by abmwod » April 15th, 2008, 8:41 am

Hi
In the UKAIP ENR 2-1-1 there is a list of all the enroute VHF frequencies, about 54. Late at night (I mean late!) I just scan them all. There is so little traffic you don't miss much. With all the bandboxing the controllers do there doesn't seem to be a guaranteed frequency for any area, in fact in SE England half the departing aircraft have been cleared to their next frequency and are working France or Belgium.
Roger

User avatar
ATCManch
Posts: 1178
Joined: July 3rd, 2007, 3:28 pm
Location: Not Manchester anymore
Contact:

Post by ATCManch » April 15th, 2008, 12:30 pm

Caravelle wrote: Time and time again I tune to a frequency and there is absolutely nothing there - even though people e-mail me to say "on 12*.*** now!".
It's called bandboxing. Some units can cross couple frequencies so there's no need to change your scanner, i.e. London Upper and London Middle bandbox at night and quiet periods but the published freq stays the same for each sector, traffic is transferred to the correct freq, but when they check in on it, they actually transmit on both (all - if more than one cross coupled), as do all transmissions by the controller. That way aircraft can be on different freqs being controlled by the same person and all can hear whats going on. It makes splitting a hell of a lot faster and easier too.

Here at Manch, we don't have cross coupling (because NATS feel they should spend money more on office staff and meetings etc etc) than on modern equipment so we have to close a freq as the sector closes, therefore you would need to be able to scan all of them just in case.

Tony
Image
Follow my blog on Planes and stuff

Post Reply